Apple Stores were given as an example of how Jobs wouldn't listen to the naysayers. When the Apple Stores were first announced industry commentators looked at the problems Gateway was experiencing with it's stores, and the success IBM was experiencing selling products online and concluded that Jobs was mad to pursue 'brick and morter' stores.
Even Ellison told Steve "that bricks and mortar was dead", and in response Steve said: "But we're using glass and steel."
Ellison joked: "He dragged me to the mockups. I wanted to throw myself out of the car."
Ellison added: "I didn't say it was nuts. I did say it was very risky. But utterly brilliant. I never expected there would be as many stores as there are now."
Catmull agreed that the Apple Stores were "more successful than I thought it would be."
The discussion really demonstrated that Ellison knew Jobs well. And he had been Jobs friend since the early days of Apple. Even in the early days, Ellison saw that: "He was an extraordinary guy and you could see it at the beginning."
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